H-France List Archives

• Message-Id: <199611061956.TAA07977@listserv.rl.ac.uk>
• Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:23:22 -0500
• From: Jim Farr <jrfarr@purdue.edu>
• Subject: Re: Norman Ravitch's Real France

>Return-Path: <hjackson@ECHONYC.COM>
>X-Sender: hjackson@mail.echonyc.com
>Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:46:59 -0500
>To: H-NET French History discussion group <H-FRANCE@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
>From: Harriet Jackson <hjackson@echonyc.com>
>Subject: Re: Norman Ravitch's Real France
>
>Of course Ravitch is joking; he wanted us to laugh -- not "at" him but
>"with" him -- at the concept of a "real France."   If he truly believed in
>the fantasy of a "real France," he'd be defined as clinically psychotic.
>
>Harriet Jackson
>Historical Consultant for New Media
>
>At 10:31 AM 11/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>[Please see Editor's comment after this message
>>
>>Jim Farr
>>Co-Editor, H-France]
>>
>>>Return-Path: <msibalis@MACH1.WLU.CA>
>>>Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:36:43 -0500 (EST)
>>>From: "Michael D. Sibalis" <msibalis@mach1.wlu.ca>
>>>Subject: Re: Norman Ravitch's Real France
>>>To: H-FRANCE <H-France@vm.cc.purdue.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Perhaps I have misunderstood the purpose of H-France, but I do not
>>>believe that it exists to provide us with a forum for political
>>>ranting.  I find Dr. Ravitch's comments about "the real France" (i.e.
>>>Catholic France) and "the damned lay republic" disturbing for two reasons.
>>>
>>>First of all, Dr. Ravitch's political views do not belong on this list,
>>>any more than mine do.  They have nothing to do with French history or
>>>the French history profession.
>>>
>>>Secondly, I do not understand how a reputable scholar can talk about some
>>>kind of Platonic "real France"--when France is made up of millions of men
>>>and women of various races and religious (and non-religious) traditions.
>>>Their history is a part of the history of France and is just as "real" as
>>>the history of practicing Catholics (who, in any case, now constitute a
>>>distinct minority of the French population).  Nor do I think it
>>>appropriate for a French scholar to refer to the "lay republic" as somehow
>>>"damned"--the lay republic is the French government and has been for some
>>>125 years.  If Dr. Ravitch would like to restore the Old Regime Monarchy,
>>>or the Petainist regime, or to re-establish Catholicism as state religion,
>>>he is free to advocate such policies ... but must he bore us with these
>>>opinions?
>>>
>>>Perhaps I am over-reacting and Dr. Ravitch is merely being humorous, but
>>>I have seen no indication of such a puckish sense of humour in his many
>>>previous interventions on this list.
>>>
>>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>Michael D. Sibalis
>>>Associate Professor
>>>Department of History
>>>Wilfrid Laurier University
>>>Waterloo, Ontario
>>>CANADA    N2L 3C5
>>>
>>>(519)-884-0710 ext. 3141
>>>msibalis@mach1.wlu.ca
>>>
>>>On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Jim Farr wrote:
>>>
>>>> >Return-Path: <norman.ravitch@UCR.EDU>
>>>> >X-Sender: ravitch@mail.ucr.edu
>>>> >Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:53:57 -0800
>>>> >To: H-NET French History discussion group <H-FRANCE@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
>>>> >From: norman.ravitch@ucr.edu (Norman Ravitch)
>>>> >Subject: Re: Can you recommend primary schools in Paris?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >The real France can only be absorbed in a Catholic school, not a
>school run
>>>> >by the damned lay Republic!  Norman Ravitch
>>>> >
>>
>>A NOTE FROM THE CO-EDITOR:
>>
>>I share Michael Sibalis's repugnance for Professor Ravitch's ill-tempered
>>commentary on French education and the Republic, and when I first read it I
>>was confronted with the choice of whether to post it or not.  Michael, I
>>think, would rather I be a more rigorous `gatekeeper,' and H-Net does
>>empower the lists's editors to turn away postings we find inappropriate.
>>But is offensive screed inappropriate?  The implications of Ravitch's
>>commentary are highly political, as Michael points out in his response, but
>>as the editor of this list, I would prefer to err on the side of openness
>>than closure.  It is precisely postings like Prof. Ravitch's that test the
>>boundaries of scholarly discourse (and my responsibilities as `gatekeeper'),
>>and though this one may offend the political sensibilities of many of the
>>subscribers to the list, that does not, in my opinion, warrant precluding
>>its dissemination to subscribers, and let you be the judge.
>>
>>Jim Farr
>>Co-Editor, H-France
>>
>>***********************************
>>James R. Farr
>>Co-Editor, H-France
>>Professor of History
>>jrfarr@purdue.edu [Note my new address!]
>>Purdue University
>>
>>
>